This interview was originally broadcast over the KALX airwaves on September 1, 2025.
Emma Swift: [00:00:00] Hello, you are listening to KALX Berkeley. My name is Emma Swift and I’m in the studio today with my friends Luther Russell and Rick Lollar. And we’re gonna do a little live set for you. This is the first track we’re gonna play. It’s called Impossible Air. 1, 2, 3.
Impossible Air plays.
Berkestir: That’s an absolutely beautiful song. Can you, uh, talk about the, what influenced you to do that song? I know you posted something after you posted a video of that song.
Emma Swift: Yeah. So Impossible Air is like many of the tracks on my new record. It’s a love song. And this one is about, um, how when you’re in a relationship with someone, sometimes doing the right thing by yourself, by your own person, is not always the best thing by your partner. And, uh, trying to find that delicate compromise in a relationship as it sort of shape shifts over time. ’cause I think, you know, ideally as human beings we grow and evolve and, uh. And sometimes in a partnership that [00:05:00] can mean that you’re growing and evolving in different directions.
I wrote it when I was living in the UK and ’cause I’m married to a British person, um, but I’m Australian and um, I’ve also spent quite a fair amount of time in Nashville. And living in London was a really interesting and challenging experience for me as a human being because I’m essentially a lizard. I like to be slightly too warm. And in England it’s always damp and always rainy. Um, so that’s how that song got born.
Sparkle Motion: And the title of your new release is The Resurrection Game.
Emma Swift: That’s correct, yeah.
Sparkle Motion: Now I’m interested in… the resurrection I get, right. What’s the game part of that? Is there some sort of trickery involved?
Emma Swift: I dunno if it’s trickery involved so much as finding a, um, a way to be grateful for the way that sometimes life kinds of knocks us down and then we have to get back up again. Like, I think, you know, when a [00:06:00] part of the soul dies or a part of your persona kind of suffers an ego death, and then you rebirth yourself when you first come back, I think you can, at least in my experience, it can be like, oh, I don’t know if I like this. I don’t know if I’m comfortable, but I’ve tended to find that if you think of life as a game and yeah, like, like like a game of snakes and ladders, like sometimes you’re going up the ladder and sometimes you’re stepping on the snake.
Sparkle Motion: That’s great. And that’s how we learn as humans through game. Right. So I I I was wondering about that through play
Emma Swift: Absolutely. Yeah. Um, it was sort of, it took me a long time to, um, to learn how to write songs and part of that was because I’d grown up in a very repressed environment. I was a very adult kid. And, and songs, even if you’re writing really sad songs like I do, they do require an element of. Of play and invention and, and kind of [00:07:00] magic. And, um, it took me a while to, to learn how to do that.
Sparkle Motion: Was this religious repression at all?
Emma Swift: Oh, yes. Yeah. Yes. Um, yeah.
Sparkle Motion: ’cause of the, ’cause of the imagery on this album.
Emma Swift: Well, I keep saying to people, you know, that it, back in the nineties, you, if you bought a CD that had rude language on it, it would come with a warning label on the front that said warning: contains explicit language and my album should come with a warning label that says warning: contains lapsed Catholic themes.
Emma Swift: I, I quite like, like I have, basically I’m, I was raised culturally Catholic rather than, um, in a very religious way. Um, but you know, so I’m the oldest of seven children and, um, I, um, yeah, it was very much like your feelings were meant to be buried deep, which is not very helpful if you’d like to be a songwriter.
Berkestir: Um, Emma, you’ve been [00:08:00] touring with the Undertow. How has that been going? Where have you been and where are you going next?
Emma Swift: So, um, for context, the Undertow are a wonderful group. They’re based in the Midwest, and what they do is they help artists, indie artists like me, facilitate house concert shows and um, and house concert is a kind of broad term, meaning that some of these gigs have been in houses, others have been in recording studios or art galleries.
We played the Museum of Flight in Seattle earlier this week. So, uh, Rick and Luther and I got to play in front of a space shuttle. Um, but basically they’re, they’re DIY gigs and we’ve been everywhere. Uh, Luther’s only just joined us for this west coast part of the run, but we started in the Midwest and, uh, so we saw a lot of corn. Uh, we went to Indianapolis, Chicago, uh, Minneapolis, and then we headed to the northeast. [00:09:00] And, um, so Baltimore, um, right up to Portland, Maine. And, and now we’re on the West Coast. It’s all, in all, it’s about just over 30 dates.
Berkestir: Wow.
Emma Swift: For the summer.
Berkestir: And, uh, tonight you’re gonna be playing in Oakland and that’s sold out.
Emma Swift: Yeah, it did.
Berkestir: So, uh, where can fans of yours, especially KALX listeners, where else can they catch you on the West coast?
Emma Swift: Uh, in the West Coast region I’m playing tomorrow for free, actually, at La Playa in Carmel. And um, and then we’ve got a gig in Santa Cruz and there’s still some tickets available for the Santa Cruz gig. And then we head down all the way down to Long Beach and, and that gig’s sold out. And then, and then I go home to see my cats. Who are very mad at me in Nashville, Tennessee. Yeah. Uh, and uh, so yeah, the tour wraps. Tour wraps in Long Beach.
Berkestir: Long Beach. And I know that, um, talking about your cats, I know that Tiny Ghost [00:10:00] Records mentions the Feline Appreciation Society.
Emma Swift: Yes.
Berkestir: Can anybody join? And how about other cats besides Ringo and Tubby?
Emma Swift: Oh, uh, I, I guess we’ve described ourselves as a feline appreciation society, but sure. Maybe that’s the thing that, you know, if once I get the
Sparkle Motion: dogs are allowed!
Emma Swift: once I, I love dogs. Luther’s got two beautiful chihuahuas and, uh, yeah, I love dogs, but my cats, uh, yeah. Yeah, of course anybody can join. Always.
Berkestir: Okay. Should we hear another song?
Sparkle Motion: Yeah, but I just wanna ask one more question about that. You know, when you’re playing a more intimate places now, and I think this album is, has this incredible intimacy as well. Have you felt that the audience are responding better in smaller venues, or do you have anything to measure that against at this point?
Emma Swift: Um, I think, uh, you know, I, I just love playing and it doesn’t really matter where you play matter so long as you can connect with people. Yeah. Um, I do think that people really [00:11:00] enjoy the intimacy of the house show experience. I think that there’s something quite magical and special about that. And certainly from an artist perspective, um, it’s a little bit, uh, it can be a little bit more freewheeling. So I don’t feel as tethered to a particular set list or an, or an idea, you know, like we are trying our best to, to change that up, you know, uh, where we can and where appropriate.
Berkestir: Would you like to do another number?
Emma Swift: Sure. Um, so this next song is, uh, you know, we talked, uh, we touched on those, uh, religious themes and DJ Sparkle Motion requested this one from the record. It’s actually… Impossible.Air is streaming everywhere now, so you can hear that anywhere. But this particular track, it’s not out yet. Um, it’s called Catholic Girls Are Easy.[00:12:00]
Catholic Girls Are Easy plays
Sparkle Motion: I love this song. And part of it is when I was growing up in high school, that was a trope that went around our high school Catholic girls were easy, And I always thought, why? Why? You know? And I love the way you’ve kind of flipped that on its ear and you’ve made it sort of this Walt Whitman esque like and the true sense of Catholic and yes, [00:18:00] yes, yes. And how great that is.
Emma Swift: Well, it’s a kind of thing about, you know, like, I wouldn’t say I, um, I was thrilled to be brought up with the kind of, uh. Hangups that you get from a Catholic upbringing, but it does give you something to rebel against. And I think perhaps that easiness, um, is, is part of that. You know, like I’m certainly not the first rock and roll Catholic.
My, my hero, Maryanne faithful, uh, you know, she was like the ultimate rebellious Catholic schoolgirl, uh, in a way. Uh, so she was a, she was a great figure to look up to and, and see how, how far you could take that.
Berkestir: Many of the tracks on your new album uses strings.
Emma Swift: Yes.
Berkestir: And uh, what made you decide to use strings and which musicians accompany you on the album.
Emma Swift: Um, well, I mean the, the full credit for the [00:19:00] strings goes to the producer and arranger, Jordan Lehning, who is a wonderful man. And when we met first talk about the making of this record. We are both very much into, uh, the music of Scott Walker. We are also into Harry Nilsson Uhhuh, and we really like the cinematic universe of David Lynch, right.
And we wanted to make a romantic decadent, cinematic sounding album and strings seemed the, the best way to do that. Um, being Nashville based, you know, like all kinds of different albums are made in, in Nashville. Um, but having these strings that gave it a kind of, I guess more of an old world feeling too, you know, like, um,
Sparkle Motion: an old Nashville feeling.
Emma Swift: Yeah. And, and, and, and it’s not, it’s not countrypolitan like, it’s not like the Patsy Cline strings but, you know, the, you know, those old sort of Dusty Springfield records and, and [00:20:00] that, and that kind of thing. Um, I guess we were trying to go there in a way, but then it was funny because after, after we made the record, um. I started listening to one of my, the first bands I got into as a teenager, which is the Cranberries because they were really popular when I was a young girl, you know, kind of 11, 12, 13, and, um, and Linger came on and the radio. And at the end of that there’s just the, the most stunning string arrangements, so I guess I’ve always been drawn to it.
You know, even bands like Oasis, they, they had pretty big strings too, and it’s funny, it, it has a way of making a record sound very expensive. Probably more expensive. I, I couldn’t afford to make a record in the nineties with strings, but things are a little bit more budget friendly now, so,
Berkestir: and I noticed that you have quite a lot of pedal steel guitar on it also.
Emma Swift: Well, yeah. I mean, that’s the [00:21:00] thing too, because like, even though I’m not a country music singer per se, one of my singing heroes is Tammy Wynette. And I love crying, sad pedal steel. I mean, Spencer Collum Jr. who plays pedal on the record is a very, um, interesting and creative pedal steel player. You know, he’s not playing cheesy licks. He’s, uh, he’s giving a very nice atmospheric sound, I think.
Sparkle Motion: You’ve been pretty open and honest about how this, you know, you went through some hard times and this all evolved, but what came first to you? Did the words? You’re, you’re kind of a poet. Did the words come to you or did does music come to you first? How did this start to approach you and how long ago?
Emma Swift: I always write the words first, and words live mostly for me in the Notes app on my phone, and I start with titles or phrases or overheard conversations, and then I tend to riff on that. And then once I have that, I’ll pick up [00:22:00] my guitar or I’ll go to the piano and try and see what comes out. Um, yeah, that’s generally the way that I, the way that I work. I mean, I’m not a very prolific person, so I just have to collect things over time and hope that it builds into something that makes sense. I mean, there was certainly tracks on this record that I, that we cut in the studio that didn’t make the album because they didn’t work.
Um, and, uh, ’cause. Yeah. Like, not all songs go together. And, and I’m pretty old fashioned, you know, some artists just release singles now, but I still think of an album, uh, as an LP. It’s got side A, it’s got side B, it
Sparkle Motion: has an arc. This one has a definite arc.
Emma Swift: Yeah. I’m, I’m trying to give it an arc. Yeah. And, and, and in a way to, I mean, that can make the record a bit. Um, you know, it’s, it’s a slow, sad contemplative. You know, [00:23:00] it’s, it’s an 11:00 PM record rather than an 11:00 AM record.
Berkestir: Well, it’s a, it’s a classic.
Emma Swift: Oh it’s not out yet.
Sparkle Motion: And I, I like all the name checks of Northern California.
Emma Swift: Well, yeah, because I, I went to a therapy camp in Northern California and that, um, that was some years ago now, but I went there back, uh, when I was still trying to, I was kind of blocked up, pent up as a person and, and a friend of mine said, oh, you should go to this hippie therapy camp in Calistoga and, uh, and do some therapy there. And I, and I did, and it was really great. It was an an excellent thing for me to do.
Sparkle Motion: Were there fires? Uh, one of your lines is ashes in your hair. and dirt in your palms. And I wondered if you were up in there when the fires were going on.
Emma Swift: No, but, but, okay. So for context, for metaphoric context, I am a, and we are in Northern California, so this will, this will fly better than it probably would in [00:24:00] my hometown in Australia, but I am a, uh, I have many planets in Sagittarius. I’m a multiple fire, fire sign person. I’ve got four planets in Sagittarius and a Leo Moon, so I’m very fiery and, uh, I can be prone to combustion at times.
So that’s, that’s, that’s why that is in there. But also the therapy camp that I attended, the Hoffman process, its place was in Calistoga and it did burn down during the fires. And I wrote the song after the fires had happened. So I didn’t, I didn’t bust out of therapy camp and go, here’s this new song. I, I wrote this sort of retrospectively.
Berkestir: Wow.
Sparkle Motion: So this was all after your Dylan covers album?
Emma Swift: Yes. Oh yeah, yeah. Mm-hmm.
Sparkle Motion: That had to impact it a little bit, though. The songwriting did it or not?
Emma Swift: Bob Dylan, of course.
Sparkle Motion: Did that covers album change the way you think about writing music or telling a story?[00:25:00]
Emma Swift: Um, it kind of, what it did was it just made me more confident in my own approach and less worried about being likable or anything like that. You know, like I, um, Bob Dylan is the king of the long poetic song. He’s, um, he’s an incredibly successful iconic artist, the greatest songwriter of all time to my mind, but he doesn’t really have commercial instincts.
You know, like I’m pretty sure Columbia weren’t thrilled when he said, and here’s 11 minutes and 58 seconds of Sad Eyed Lady of the Lowlands, but he just went and did that anyway. And so I think that, that singing his songs and being a student of the way that he approaches art has, um, opened up my ideas about, you know, how to do it. If that, if that makes sense.
Berkestir: Should we hear a Dylan cover next?
Emma Swift: Yeah, we can do a Dylan’s one for you. Um, I, I’m okay. Uh,
Sparkle Motion: not the 11 minute one.
Emma Swift: You don’t want an 11 minute one? Why [00:26:00] not? Oh, dang.
Sparkle Motion: I’m kidding. I’m kidding.
Emma Swift: Um, yeah, let’s do, One of Us Must Know, um, I really like this song because when Bob Dylan sings it, he has a kind of angry, you know. Angry passion and, and when I play it, I, uh, I’m trying to give it a little bit, a little bit of tenderness ’cause it’s essentially a sad song.
One of Us Must Know plays
Sparkle Motion: That really, that’s an interesting twist.
Emma Swift: Well, thanks. I mean, it’s, it’s, it’s on my record, Blonde on the Tracks. So, but that’s a full band arrangement on Blonde on the Tracks. And the fun thing about doing acoustic is that you can really shapeshift things. You know, Luther’s in here on this beautiful Martin 12 string. Rick is here playing my Gibson Elvis Costello custom guitar. Uh, you know, this is radio so you can’t see it, but, uh, it’s a really spectacular looking guitar.
Berkestir: It’s very pretty.
Emma Swift: Yeah. It, it’s nice. So yeah, it’s, um, I’m, I’m glad you liked that, that twist on that track.
Berkestir: Yeah. And of all the, maybe not Odetta [00:33:00] Sings Dylan, but of all the other female artists who have covered Dylan, I think your album is my favorite and it just, I mean, more people should know about it and listen to it.
Emma Swift: Oh, well, I mean that’s, I mean, that’s a huge compliment. Thank you very much. I, um. I just think that there’s so much to be learned. You know, you asked about what I learned from Dylan’s songwriting, but I learned so much as a singer listening to the way that other people sing Bob Dylan songs, you know, from Odetta to Nina Simone to Joan Baez. Uh, we were listening to Sandy Denny in the car the other day. I mean, I’m a huge Brian Ferry fan, and he also had a record yes, called Dylanesque. And, uh, you know, his version of hard rain’s gonna fall, uh, makes me very happy as a person.
Sparkle Motion: Has anyone ever covered one of your songs, Emma?
Emma Swift: Not as far as I know. Um, uh, yeah, I think Robin Hitchcock, my partner, has sung some of my [00:34:00] songs.
Sparkle Motion: I just wonder what that must feel like to hear your song covered, and what, what your expectation of that is. You know, when you do somebody’s cover, what, what do you think is owed to the artist, if anything?
Emma Swift: I think that the thing is about covering someone’s song is that you don’t really owe them anything. Songs are kind of handed down, you know, I, I, I, at least in the folk music tradition, um, I mean, I’m not someone who would go, I would never muck around with the words or anything like that. Like I think if there’s something that you need to change then like, like for example, when I do Dylan, I don’t change any of the pronouns or anything like that.
Um, I’m working on a whole album of Lou Reed songs at the moment and uh, and, and that’s been a whole other covers experience.
Sparkle Motion: Wow, that’s fantastic.
Emma Swift: Well, it’s, I don’t know if it’s gonna be fantastic, but it’s certainly gonna be something substantially.
Sparkle Motion: When’s that coming out?
Emma Swift: Oh, I don’t know. Sometime in the not-too-distant future.
Berkestir: [00:35:00] Alright, Emma, you wear many different hats with your own career, touring, releasing a new album, being Robin Hitchcock’s partner, running Tiny Ghost Records, marketing new releases and selling merchandise from Emma Swift, Robin Hitchcock to Soft Boys and Tubby. How do you manage all these responsibilities?
Emma Swift: I love responsibilities, and I think that hats are, hats are…
Sparkle Motion: She’s Catholic.
Emma Swift: I’m Catholic, you know, I’m a workaholic. Um, I, I I took all that, uh, fervor and put it into to work. No, I’m, I think that because I, I, you know, I just live at the, the very indie end of the artist spectrum and, um, while that has challenges, I think that it helps earth me as an artist, you know, like if you’re just on tour and you’re just making records, that’s kind of like the ego driven part of the art when you’re shipping out t-shirts and, um, talking to people after [00:36:00] gigs, that’s…. like the shipping out t-shirt sides.
That’s just like working in a shop, which I owe, you know, I, I grew up working in, you know clothing stores and stuff like that. So that’s kind of like that. And then, um, and then talking to people after gigs, that’s the real joy part because to me, music is the great connector, I think. Um, I, I love being in a room and talking with other people about music. So it’s, it’s a lot of hats to wear, but I quite, I enjoy it.
Berkestir: And I, I imagine, um, having your own stuff released on your label is a bit freer than if you had a record contract with…
Emma Swift: Um, I, I mean, I guess it is, it is more freeing because I don’t have any commercial restraints, but like, in all honesty, it’s not like anybody’s ever offered me a record deal either. It’s, it’s like, it’s like I, I put the record out, or no one does, no one is beating down my door saying, oh my [00:37:00] gosh, we, we simply must have this niche Emma Swift record.
Berkestir: I think they don’t know what they’re missing,
Emma Swift: You know, and I wouldn’t work, I wouldn’t rule out working with a label. ’cause some labels are fantastic. You know, they, they do help you find more people for your, for your music. And I think that that’s one of the most, um, yeah. One of the most challenging things for any artist now, whether they’re on a label or not, is getting people to find the songs because there’s just so much music out there. You know, if you were putting out an album in the seventies, you were mostly just competing with every album that came out that year or the year before.
But now we’re contemporary artists are competing with catalog, you know? Um, we live in a very nostalgic time and, and you know, I did a Dylan covers record. I’m, I’m, I’m not above nostalgia. I love it. I love classic rock. Um, [00:38:00] but yeah, like. If you can play any album that’s ever been made on your phone,
Berkestir: right
Emma Swift: How do you even find, how do you even find a record like you mine?
Berkestir: How do you break through?
Emma Swift: And and I, and I don’t have an answer to that question.
Sparkle Motion: These private concerts you’re doing is a nice way to do it actually, these smaller sort of venues.
Emma Swift: Well what it does, I think, is it gives people an opportunity to kind of get up close and personal with the songs. And then hopefully the ultimate goal is that if you’ve been to a show and you liked it, you’ll tell your friends. You know, I had a very nice gentleman come up to me after the show the other day and he enjoyed it so much he brought six CDs. So, so that’s nice, you know? Yeah, exactly. And hopefully they’re not like six CDs for him and his five cats, and no one’s actually gonna hear it, you know?
Berkestir: Should we do another song?
Sparkle Motion: Yeah let’s do one last song off that new album, if you don’t mind.
Emma Swift: Okay, sure. Um,
Sparkle Motion: For those who didn’t get to go to the concert tonight, [00:39:00] that sold out in Oakland.
Emma Swift: so yeah. My name is Emma Swift. We are tuned into KALX Berkeley. My new album, the Resurrection Game, is out on September 12th and this is one of the more recent singles from it. It’s called Beautiful Ruin.
Beautiful Ruin plays.
Sparkle Motion: Beautiful. You two guitarists are really amazing.
Emma Swift: They’re great, aren’t they?
Sparkle Motion: They really are. Are they gonna be there tonight?
Emma Swift: They absolutely are.
Sparkle Motion: Oh, fantastic. And then, and then, are you, uh, going downstate with Emma as well? Both of you?
Emma Swift: Yeah. We’re, we’re traveling in a giant car. It’s a very American giant car. We don’t, we don’t have an endorsement deal, so we, we don’t need to. It’s a giant electric car, but because we have a, yeah, we’ve got a lot of gear. Uh, got a lot of gear.
Berkestir: Wow. Well, thank you Emma.
Emma Swift: Thank [00:44:00] you. Thanks for having me. It’s great to be back.
Berkestir: Oh yeah, I think this is your third time at KALX?
Emma Swift: I think so, yeah. Yes. I, the first one was some years ago and then the most recent one was with Robin Hitchcock. Right when he was playing at The Chapel. And, um, and, and now I’m back. You can’t keep me outta California. I love the, the eucalyptus trees, you know,
Berkestir: Are you thinking about leaving Nashville?
Emma Swift: No, I love Nashville. Um, it’s also, I can afford to live in Nashville. Yes. Yeah. Um, Nashville’s great. Tubby and Ringo. Mind the homestead. Uh, for context listeners, if, if this sounds confusing, Tubby is my cat Ringo also my cat?
Berkestir: Yes, and they’re, they your cats inspire me every time I see them. And in fact, um, my wife is thinking about getting a premium Tubby pillow for our cat Natasha.
Emma Swift: Oh, really?
Berkestir: Yes.
Emma Swift: Well, you know, I might be able to send you one. I, I, I think I know where they’re located. Okay. [00:45:00] Uh, so I, I can probably look after you there.
Berkestir: Oh, okay. Well, um, I don’t know if you have any parting words or, and remember whenever you’re… And you or Robin are in town always come by KALX. We always love having you.
Emma Swift: Oh, that’s so sweet. I love coming to KALX. It’s so nice of you Berkestir. Yeah. It’s so nice of you to have me, DJ Sparkle Motion, the greatest DJ name in America. Truly. Uh, I, I love it. Yeah, it’s great to be back and, and thanks so much for all your support of the music. It’s, you know, it’s truly appreciated.
Berkestir: Yes. Would you like to go out with one more tune?
Luther: We don’t know anymore. [laughter]
Emma Swift: We don’t know anymore. That’s it. Uh, we could go out with one more tune or you could play one from the record, but, um, yeah. Do you wanna, because I think the, it might be nice for the listeners to get a, a sense of,
Berkestir: alright, I’ll let, uh, Sparkle Motion00:46:00]
Emma Swift: Do you wanna pick a favorite from the album, Sparkle Motion?
Berkestir: and what would be your favorite?
Sparkle Motion: My favorite she played, but I also love For You and Oblivion.
Emma Swift: Okay. So this song, while, while we are lining it up, I wrote this song about having an imaginary conversation with the British journalist, Christopher Hitchens. So this song…
Sparkle Motion: I love Christopher Hitchens.
Emma Swift: Yeah. A very funny man. And,
Sparkle Motion: and also smartest man I’ve ever…
Emma Swift: and he, um, yeah, so that’s, that’s how this song came to be. It’s about me, um, having a conversation with his ghost.
Berkestir: Oh, right
Emma Swift: in Houston, Texas.
Berkestir: Wow.
Sparkle Motion: That’s fantastic. Well, here it is.
Berkestir: All right. On your mighty KALX with your Berkestir and Sparkle Motion, and Emma Swift.[00:47:00]
For You and Oblivion plays.
