This interview was originally broadcast over the KALX airwaves on Monday, August 3 2026.
Shannon Lay: Hey, how’s it going?
Ears of Maize: Doing well. Thank you for your time, and thanks for being here today. First of all, I guess I wanna wish you congratulations on the upcoming album… Past the Veil. What’s got you jazzed about it?
Shannon Lay: Yeah. I mean, it’s funny ’cause we finished this record end of 2024, so it’s been done for a minute. As time goes by, it just becomes more and more relevant, so I like that feeling of kind of having made this time capsule that feels really special to open, even if it’s not kind of in the moment that it was made in. It feels like it’s aging well, even in my own psyche. So I’m hoping that the timing for everybody else can be really delicious, too and helpful.
Ears of Maize: Politically and culturally or within your own timeline and self-experience?
Shannon Lay: I think they’re a little bit entwined at the moment. It’s a little hard to wrap your arms around global problems right now. But it feels so connected to the way that we’re kind of within ourselves and kind of, like- maturing in our relationship with ourselves. I think that the work that people are doing to heal is inherently healing the societal conditions that we’re kinda coming to terms with at the moment. The whole concept of the veil feels very relevant. We’re seeing that the facade is really cracking. Everything is shifting societally.
I think that our perspective and our priorities, all, everything is just kind of coming to a head, and we really need to change course. Otherwise, it’s not gonna be good. So yeah, it all feels connected.
Ears of Maize: I couldn’t agree more. It feels like very much a rubber meeting the road sort of moment. And what are we gonna do about it, right? Are we gonna lean into it or just…
Shannon Lay: The whole theme of the record is very focused on how we have these discomforts that we’re quite used to, and I think that the way that we dissociate and numb ourselves and kind of see an issue within ourselves or outside of ourselves and distract ourselves from it rather than dealing with it a lot of the time, it’s just not working anymore, and I think that a lot of people are seeing that the temporary solutions don’t lead to actual relief.
It’s just maybe you feel better that night ’cause you got drunk or, you know, you stared at your phone for an hour and forgot about it, but then you got off your phone and it’s still there. So the vision that I kept having for this kind of concept was we live life kind of on this stage, and for the majority of it, we’re exposed on this stage.
But if you just go behind the curtain, like picturing one of those heavy red velvet curtains, if you just take a minute and look back there and face the discomfort instead of turning away from it, there’s so much more relief in that action. The whole record, the trajectory of it is kind of acknowledging the discomfort of that and the challenge, and then giving you a little reward.
So it’s like those peaks and valleys of the hero’s journey kind of, and really making sure that we acknowledge that with finding peace and relief, there’s going to be a certain amount of discomfort that comes with shifting out of chaos and shifting out of, you know, your usual methods of dissociation.
So I wanted it to be one of those challenge and reward cycles with just how I structured the record and the track list and stuff. And then it ends with just a dancey number where it’s just like we’re here to enjoy this and have a blast. So, you know, in the end, all of this hard work and all of this scary upheaval within and whatever, like, it’s all leading to us having a better time.
Ears of Maize: I appreciate that too because sometimes you just physically have to shake it out. You know what I mean? So it sounds like there may even be part of that in what you described as the last track on this record.
Shannon Lay: Totally, and I think so much of the relief comes from having more of a relationship with your body because we’re taught to be such cerebral beings, you know, all of this critical thinking and stuff.
In the end, where I’ve found the most healing is in dropping into my heart space and just feeling where the discomfort is living within me and just, again, turning towards it, just being with it. Have you ever heard of the 90 second rule with feelings? If you’re ever having a really intense emotion, all you have to do is for 90 seconds, your only job is to be with that emotion.
You just have to feel that emotion, and like 99% of the time it shifts it completely. It’s so trippy. You could like set a timer and like see how fast it, it works. But I mean, the amount of time we spend resisting what, what we’re feeling leads to so much more of dealing with that feeling. Yeah, and just turning towards yourself and like really being with what’s coming up rather than like being judgmental of it or, you know, mad about it, you know?
Ears of Maize: Yeah, that’s really profound, and a really good tool. Do you find relief in sort of putting them into song? And do you find satisfaction or overcoming the thoughts and the feelings that were sort of the inspiration that were first sort of troublesome or needed working out? Do you feel the resolve, or is it a continuing journey, or it never really has an end?
Shannon Lay: Mm, yeah. Great, great question. I think that in making a record, I feel immense purpose. When you’re in a studio, there is just this concentrated purpose that feels, I don’t know, the best that I have ever felt in my life. There’s just such a clear meaning to why you’re here and what you’re doing, and especially when you’re doing it with community, like you’re experiencing other people having that feeling too, which is really special.
But I think that the messages that come through and the songs that come through, especially on this record, ’cause we wrote so much of it in the studio, I didn’t hear the messages till a little after, and to this day, they’re still kind of revealing themselves to me. So I have this theory that, like, you know, art and music comes from kind of our higher selves.
This kind of evolved version of us is speaking through this current self. And so it is kind of a slow burn in terms of the meaning coming through. But, I mean, writing songs and making art in general, to me, living creatively in general, even if you aren’t, you know, a visual artist, or you don’t know how to write a song or sing or whatever, I think just living creatively, that’sthe absolute antithesis to evil.
So that, that purpose to me, it will be never-ending and will always be revealing itself in new ways. Yeah. I mean, that’s what I feel is the most worth being devoted to, creativity in general.
Ears of Maize: Well, and I guess the thing I hear you say, and I don’t wanna put words in your mouth, is the idea that the process and the evolution of it all is worth the ride in itself. The idea that there really are less periods at the end of sentences in life, and it’s more so about the journey and the evolution and just kind of… Yeah, the evolution and just embracing it and seeing all of its sides as it grows and fosters and blooms and shows itself in different ways. And so it’s encouraging to hear that despite the fact that a song is made, and it’s put to record, and it can still have future meaning and evolve.
Shannon Lay: Absolutely. I mean, I love art because it’s someone’s unique perspective in a tangible sense. You know what I mean? You can look at a painting and find your own meaning in someone else’s meaning.
Or you can hear a song and find your own meaning in that message. The cool part about releasing music is that other people then get to have their experience with it. So as insular as it’s felt for me now, I think the excitement that’s building is the fact that these songs are gonna get to now have their own life out in the world.
They no longer belong to me, so it’s gonna be interesting to see how they’re received out in the world. It’s the coolest part of being here is just, getting to see everyone’s perspective and what they’re experiencing here. It’s really wild!
Ears of Maize: This record is out on All The Best Records. Do you wanna tell me more about that?
Shannon Lay: Yes. I decided to start my own label. I spent all of 2025 shopping it around to labels after being dropped from Sub Pop. And it felt like the right thing to do in terms of just like, “Let me see what’s out there,” and I really did my due diligence. I explored all of my kind of dream options and then found options that I hadn’t even thought of.
And in the end, what felt the most right was just kind of betting on myself in a way that I haven’t up until this point. I feel like at the moment it’s a really friendly time to be an independent artist. There’s a lot of amazing avenues to release music that are very much in your hands.
So I don’t know. With what I’ve built and with what I’m building, I have this hope that it can be less conditional. And that the music business, which to me has always felt like kind of an oxymoron, can become as personal as it feels to me. This art means the world to me, and it’s not something that necessarily commodifying it, is my favorite part of the job.
And, you know, I understand that when labels let go of artists, it has so much to do with numbers and, and kind of the business side of things. But yeah, it was just a way to bet on myself a little more vehemently.
Ears of Maize: And outside of yourself, is it a process and a project that allows you more collaboration and bring friends and community in?
Shannon Lay: Yeah, for sure. That was a huge part of it, ’cause, I mean, Rob and I, the person that I wrote this record with, Rob Shelton, we were, you know, kind of just splitting everything. So it was a very communal result to what we made. And this record in particular felt really nice to keep in my hands.
It was really hard for me to feel like giving it away was the right thing to do. Not that you give it away when you necessarily work with a label, but there’s a certain amount of the creative process that you then share with this other entity.
Ears of Maize: I’ve been inspired by the collaborations that you’ve had with past records and, you know, things from, like, you know, working with Kevin Morby and Ty Segall. Even just seeing Bridget Dawson doing some artwork on, what, your August record. Again, you read the liner notes of your records and you’re like, “Oh, she’s totally homies with all the music that I like.” And it’s just the crossover and the cross-pollination of stuff. You’re like, “No wonder I love this stuff.” Yeah, I just… It seems like you have some really great friends at your back to contribute and put some of this stuff together.
Shannon Lay: I couldn’t do it without the community around me, and also I couldn’t have done it without the kind of structure that labels have given me. When that scaffolding was taken away, I was really pleasantly surprised to see that I was still standing on my own really strongly. It’s just wild to… I don’t know. You can never guess what your collaborators are gonna gift you, and I think that, you know, labels have gifted me a lot of strength and confidence and then my community has given me this just absolute surge of support that I wouldn’t be able to do this without them. That’s, yeah, the ultimate gift.
Ears of Maize: And that being said, you’ve been LA based for some time. What does the LA community and art look and feel like, or what’s sort of the temperature as you’re experiencing it these days?
Shannon Lay: It’s incredible. I grew up in LA, and I’ve been playing music here since 2009, and it’s just so cool to be at the point where I’m kind of seeing a changing of the guard. I’m seeing new people move here. I’m seeing whole new bands pop up. You know, friends are starting new bands. I love LA because there’s enough room for everyone. There’s enough venues for everyone. There’s every kind of venue. There’s every size venue. I always say it’s like being a plant in the rainforest here. You have everything that you need to grow and flourish and kind of anything that you wanna get into, it’s amazing to watch how it catches. You know? Like, when you find something that draws your attention, never pay it no mind, ’cause, you never know what’s gonna… Like, I started doing ceramics, and that was just like, phew.That sucked me in, and I wanted to think about doing tattooing, and that sucked me in, and it was like, “Oh, okay.” I think being creative here is just a blast. It’s the best.
Ears of Maize: Nice. Yeah. The other theme that sort of goes hand-in-glove is I find a lot of references to the ocean and the sea. Do you wanna expand on that relationship?
Shannon Lay: Totally. I mean, I grew up in Redondo Beach, which is just one of the most beautiful places on planet Earth. It’s incredible. But the ocean always sets me straight if I’m feeling off. Even just looking at it, having that, expands my perspective and reminds me of how small I am in the most empowering way.
And it also just reminds me of the natural ebb and flow that occurs within all of us. I think that is the major fault of capitalism. It does not account for the ebb and flow that is so natural. It is so natural to have a period of recess and then a period of growth, and then a period of recess and a period of growth.
You know, you’ve heard of this study where they injected redwood trees with adrenaline so that they didn’t go into hibernation, and these trees that lived for hundreds of years died within a few years. You cannot flourish without your internal, you know, wintering, so to speak.
And I love how nature gives us all these examples of how the seasons change, and how we kind of slow down, and how the light changes. And I think it’s so baffling that we’ve somehow convinced ourselves that constant productivity means that we’re doing something right. I think that that’s how you burn out and how you get really tired, off the bat.
So I mean, the ocean is that ultimate reminder of, man, that thing has endless energy to just ebb and flow, and so do we. You know? But how often do you knock yourself for the ebb? You know? For when you need that period of recess, you beat yourself up. And especially as, if you’re a self-employed person, you never have to clock out.
You could always be going and going. But I don’t know. It’s a good reminder- Yeah … that it’s okay to just let yourself chill.
Ears of Maize: Is the ocean then where you find sort of natural solace in the LA area, or do you have favorite places to find the nature?
Shannon Lay: Yeah, the ocean’s a big one. I always go back to Redondo. My dad’s still there, so I go down there a lot. But there’s also some amazing nature here in LA. Like, there’s this great trail called the Gabrielino Trail, and it runs right by JPL, the Jet Propulsions Laboratory. But it’s got this river that runs through it, and, like, this lush forest all around it, and you could totally go dip your tootsies in when it’s too hot.
It’s great. There’s also Descanso Gardens, which is this absolutely beautiful garden up in, I think it’s… I wanna say San Gabriel, but that, that feels wrong. It’s down the 2 a little bit. It’s a beautiful garden. And then there’s Huntington, five minutes away from Huntington Library, which is an amazing garden. And there’s great parks. There’s tons of good nature here. The public pool is popping off always.
Ears of Maize: Okay, good. I don’t get to LA as often as I’d like to, but my girlfriend and I just came back from a week-long trip to New York. We did the most un-New York thing of just being northern California folks just wanting to find nature in the big city, but it’s there and it’s rewarding when you find it, right?
Shannon Lay: Totally, yeah. Cities will surprise you, man. I remember being in Baltimore and finding a really cool nature reserve. I was like, “What the?”… This stuff is everywhere.
Ears of Maize: It’s the best. Yes. And, and when you find yourself in a city that’s totally void of it, you’re like, “What the hell are we doing here?” Like, I remember the first time I went to Houston and I was just like, there’s just asphalt and concrete everywhere. Like, there were no parks and I was like, “How does anybody do it here?”
Shannon Lay: Absolutely.
Ears of Maize: Yeah. I was able to catch you, I think it was back in 2022. You did a show with Bedouine at the Sebastiani Theatre here in Sonoma. And again, it was such a haunting and hallowed space. And too, I saw that you’ve put the Live at the Zebulon album together back in 2020. So I wanted to ask you, what does sort of your relationship to finding a space that adds that next dimension, and also to kind of hear what it’s like for you to put a live record together?
Shannon Lay: Yeah. The Live at Zebulon was really fun because I had never toured with a band up until that point, and it was three of my best girlfriends and oh, and Ben Boyd joined us for that show at Zebulon too on keys. Absolute ripper. That record in particular came from, I think, Zebulon, one of those venues that just feels like home and they do an absolutely amazing job of recording shows too.
They record every show that happens there, so they have, like, an insane archive of music. It felt like an important lineup to capture. You know, like, it was a really cool moment, and I can’t always tour with a band just financially. So it was really nice to kind of capture that moment, and I think at the time we were touring around August, so it was a lot of those songs, and I had done that record with Ty.
Inherently, he was, you know, all over it and, you know, there were drums and just all kinds of cool kind of moments that I wouldn’t have naturally done that he brought to the table. So it was so cool to bring all that stuff live. But setting has become incredibly important to me, and I think that somewhere like the Sebastiani where people can be seated and it’s this…you’re right. There is kind of this, like, haunting quality to the space, and the sound is really nice. I like when people can be comfortable and, and present with the situation. You know? I love finding alternative spaces to play. It’s kind of become a real priority for me as I’ve done this more and more. Finding just unconventional places to shred is one of my favorite things.
Ears of Maize: In the case of the Zebulon show and record… is that something that just happened to be a gift that you didn’t see coming?
Shannon Lay: That was a happy accident. It was a special show and I think I had asked for the recordings and yeah, it just worked out. We just did that one show there, so it was, yeah, it was a good one.
Ears of Maize: Awesome. It’s great- Yeah … when it works out like that, right?
Shannon Lay: I know.
Ears of Maize: Bravo. I’ve loved your evolution of including covers on your records as well as your release of Covers Volume One. Can we anticipate a Covers Volume Two and more? Is that something that you’ve thought of and was strategic in your titling there and you’ve got more in the chamber?
Shannon Lay: Yeah, I think if all goes as planned, I will make as many of those as I possibly can while I’m on this earth, and Volume Two is almost done.
It’s like very, very much in the wrapping up phase. I’ve always loved covers, especially as someone who has opened for a lot of bands. A lot of times people will come into the show and not know who you are, and I think covers are an amazing kind of instant unifier where there’s familiarity, and so therefore there’s comfort.
I have found that my favorite shows are where I feel really held by the performer. Whether it’s a band or solo artist or whatever, if they’re confident in what they’re doing, and that doesn’t mean perfect, that just means that they have a sense of themselves. There’s just this like feeling of relaxing into the experience that I think creates the kind of feeling you walk away from being like, “That was a great show.” You know what I mean? And you’re not gonna remember if it was absolutely technically perfect or whatever. You’re just gonna remember that you felt really good at that show. That’s something I think that covers has helped me do, and I have a Slayer song on the new record, you know what I mean?
Taking these kind of unconventional songs and creating, like, Shannonizing them and, like, just making them a little simpler and sweeter is one of my favorite things. I love it so much.
Ears of Maize: Hell yeah! Well, and I love your commitment to it. As you described, a lot of people lean on covers to find something familiar, and how I’ve sort of digested your covers is that you bring an incredibly new light. Not only just a new sonic sound, but I find that your contributions to covers that I know have this emotional addition to them in ways that I had never thought of a song in that context. The one that comes to mind is the I Am Slow by The Osees. Like, the way that, again, you sort of redeveloped that and just made it into something incredibly new.
But again, even that song, in its demo, has all these seagull sounds, and I think of, again, about the ocean. The emotional weight that you bring to sort of this new light, I don’t know, I really admire your relationship with covers.
Shannon Lay: I think what you’re hearing is how much these songs mean to me. Most of the songs that I cover, I have a really strong relationship with, and so, you know, taking them on, especially with something as weighted as, like, Elliott Smith or Nick Drake, or, you know, these artists that mean the world to people, I don’t take it lightly. Soit has to be bomb as hell or it’s out, you know?
And then once I get to know it, then it gets infused with my own personality and kind of my own feeling, and I think inherently I bring a lot of emotion to the table. You know, it’s funny, I really struggle with it in my day-to-day life, but on stage, I can really tap into that realm, and it’s just such a rewarding place to be, and I think that people appreciate the invitation.
Ears of Maize: Yeah. Uh, that cover of I Am Slow, I listen to the lyrics of that song and it speaks to me in sort of my own sort of time and place in my relationship with aging. And across the board in your songwriting and your performance, I find that you’re incredibly introspective. It feels like a transparency and a vulnerability that you wear so confidently and bring to your performance and to your songwriting. Do you have a incredible therapist, or are you just… You know, how are you so wise and mature? [laughter]
Shannon Lay: I feel like my life really started when I turned 30. It was kind of that classic Saturn return moment, and I also turned 30 during the pandemic. It was 2020. So I, one, had an amazing therapist, so was able to completely fall apart, and two, I had amazing friends that really called me out on my BS.
They basically called me out on the fact that I didn’t know how to express my emotions, and I was really thinking that this facade that I had built was working really well, and it wasn’t. So I took that really seriously, and fully fell apart. And weirdly, the pandemic had an amazing timing in that sense, because I didn’t have to go out and pretend that I was fine.
I was just broken for two years. I was just absolutely in a puddle, and then was able to build myself back up, and that’s when I started writing Geist. So it was, it was this, like, really lovely trajectory of kind of dismantling myself and then rebuilding to something that was a little more sustainable and authentic, and…
And then now I’m kind of, like, falling apart again and rebuilding again. You know, I think it’s a constant process. But it gave me a really good foundation to feel safe within curiosity, and then to also just full throttle right into it. I’m just so interested in how to have a better time with this experience, ’cause it’s been historically really hard to be here.
I’ve always felt really different, and I’ve always beat myself up a lot for being different. Through that curiosity, I’ve found relief in realizing the difference isn’t anything to be ashamed about. It’s just something to, like, consider and nurture, and even appreciate if, if you’re feeling sassy. You know what I mean? Like, it’s the best. So, I mean, I’m glad it comes through because I do feel like a reason I’m here is to show people that there’s a better way to do this. I don’t think that there’s one way, and I think that being open to all avenues, and particularly being really curious about what your avenue is and how your experience is maximized here is gonna be so key moving forward because there isn’t any rule book.
There’s no right way to do this. There’s no right way to be in a relationship or go to school or get a job or exist. It’s just kind of a free-for-all right now, which can be really intimidating. But I think it’s also quite exciting because we have so many options to just lean further into authenticity.
I mean, what you’re seeing in me is someone who, I was able to quit my job in 2017, and I’ve been doing music ever since and have just been in awe of how I’ve been supported by the universe and just absolutely nurtured and, yeah, just being really devoted to my creativity and my curiosity. And so I’m so happy that that comes through ’cause a lot of times I just feel like an absolute mess, so it’s nice that it feels, from an outside, it feels kind of controlled.
Ears of Maize: Yeah. I really commend you in the songwriting of your song Awaken and Allow. Mm. It feels like this sort of mantra to self and sort of this grounding of a place to start and through yourself all things are possible. But dare I say, like, Buddhist sort of tempo and template to it? I appreciate your contributions, and it’s been motivating in my own practice. So thank you.
Shannon Lay: Oh, I love that. Thank you so much. Yeah. That, that song has been such a trip ’cause I’ve started prefacing it as a meditation at the very end of my set. I’m like, “Are you guys down for a meditation?” Everybody’s like- … “Okay.” And then at the end, I mean, I’ve never gotten so many comments about a song.
I think that people…we had it during COVID to an extent, this permission to be still, to be with ourselves, to be kind of introspective about what is working, what isn’t working. And I think now that things have kind of, you know, our foot’s back on the gas pedal, we forget to pause. And so those moments we, you know, we need to remind each other that it’s okay to be still.
And this attention that is being commodified is our greatest asset, which is why they, they want it so badly. So remember that giving that to yourself is the ultimate gift. Turn that inward and be with yourself. It’s crucial.
Ears of Maize: Again, August 6th, The Chapel, San Francisco. You’re coming with Alela Diane.
Shannon Lay: Yeah.
Ears of Maize: And, the new record, Past the Veil, will be out, again, Shannon, I wanna thank you so much for your time. And again, congratulations on the new record…. celebrate it and have fun.
Shannon Lay: Thank you! I’ll be back up the West Coast in October, I think. And I actually, I’m working on a new version of Awaken and Allow because I changed the chorus to suit the times a little bit more. But yeah, that should be out soon. Thank you so much for your extremely thoughtful questions. It was really amazing. Thank you!
