Below is a transcript of this conversation. To learn more, you can go to the Cal web page for the OWLs here.
Ali Nazar: You’re listening to KALX Berkley, 90. 7 FM, University of California, listener supported radio. And this is Berkeley Brainwaves, a show dedicated to telling stories about the Cal experience. I’m your host, Ali Nazar. And today I have two guests in studio with me. I have Andi Rusk.
Andi Rusk: Hello.
Ali Nazar: And Leo Duran.
Leo Duran: Hey.
Ali Nazar: And they are from the OWLS group. OWLS stands for, uh, Andi, why don’t you tell us?
Andi Rusk: Older Wiser Learners.
Ali Nazar: Okay. Older Wiser Learners. And let’s start with what is the group? Like why does it exist?
Andi Rusk: Do you want to take that? Do you want me to talk about that?
Leo Duran: I mean, as, like, someone who doesn’t lead it and someone who just goes to the, to the group, uh, for me it’s just been kind of like this place where I have like this sense of familiarity and support. Um, I’ve been able to make friends. I’ve been able to find out a lot about resources there. So it’s just kind of, like, a space where I can just, like, either come and vent or come and ask questions or just sit there and eat some goodies that somebody brought. Usually Andi. Yeah. So yeah.
Andi Rusk: So yeah, an older wiser learner is essentially a student at Cal who is 25 or over. So that’s really the only requirement is a student, 25 and up, and, uh, it’s a, it’s a part of the re-entry services program. So I’m not sure how long OWLS has been running, but someone told me about it many, many years ago when I was thinking about, um, applying to Berkeley. And they were like, if you ever get to Berkeley, you should join the OWLS group. [laughing]
Ali Nazar: So is it like a student club or what?
Andi Rusk: It’s not counted as a club. It’s really just like a support group, essentially. That’s kind of how we, we always describe it when people ask us about it. And even, like, the people who oversee the group, it’s really just a support group. Um, and so it’s, it can be structured week to week, but overall, it’s really just like, like Leo said, it’s a place for students who are over a certain age gathering to offer support, talk about resources, commiserate on their, their unique experience at Cal being, you know, a non traditional college student. Um, So, yeah, it’s really just kind of sold as a, as a support group.
Ali Nazar: And, um, is it just for undergrad? Is that the–?
Andi Rusk: Yeah, so this one, well, no, I guess we can have grads, there are – we don’t usually get grad students there.
Leo Duran: I don’t think I’ve met a grad student there.
Andi Rusk: Yeah, because the, so the re-entry services is such a specific part of the transfer center. So the transfer center is for any students who are transferring in from a two year college. And then, so, the re-entry services is for transfer students who are 25 and over. So it’s really, yeah, it’s kind of specific to undergrads. Yeah. Which as you can imagine, an undergrad who is, you know, 25, 35, 45 is having an extremely unique experience coming to Cal.
Ali Nazar: Yeah, it’s a lot different from being 18 and graduating high school and coming straight here.
Andi Rusk: It’s very, very different. Yeah. And so that’s kind of, I think that must have been why, what, how it came to be was that, you know, there was enough people who were transferring in, who were of a certain age, who probably didn’t have very many other places to go on campus because while there are obviously many, many orgs here and lots of clubs that you can do, and I’m not saying that older students can’t do those, but you’re still not going to generally find in those kinds of clubs and other groups people who might be your age. So having a space that is specifically, you just know that you’re gonna ultimately probably have some more common ground, you know, even though you’re all coming from different walks of life. But just, yeah, talking to students who aren’t 18 to 22 is – it’s not easy to come by if you’re taking classes with undergrads, you know.
Ali Nazar: And I would assume the– that cohort of 18 to 22, they have a bunch of services for them, like, targeted at them.
Andi Rusk: Yeah, they have everything. They’re the primary demographic, you know, which is great and cool. But yeah, I mean, in my first semester here, um, I was glad that someone had tipped me off about OWLS, um, because I was, I was unexpectedly uncomfortable in my first semester here. Um, it was like a big sort of shock to my system to go to undergrad classes. Um, and be, like, the only person who was even remotely older than 22. [laughing] Like looking at, like, especially you go into your first semester, you go into your first class, it might be, like, even a pretty entry level for your major. So it’s, like, got tons of 18 year olds in it. And you’re sitting down and you’re just like, I’m 44 years old and there’s – everyone in here is young enough to be my child and, like… I wasn’t prepared. I guess I just hadn’t really thought about it, honestly, how that would make me feel until it happened. And then pretty much, like, immediately, uh, like, after the first week of classes, I was like, when is that OWLS meeting happening? And I went online, looked up the website for re-entry services, and they hadn’t scheduled it yet, but I kept checking, ‘cause as soon as the first OWLS meeting happened, I was there, like, my first semester, and I never stopped going.
Ali Nazar: Nice. Well, I’m curious, what’s the composition of the OWLS group? It sounds like it’s, in and of itself, it’s pretty diverse, but what kind of people are in it? Is it– huge age differences, or…?
Leo Duran: It’s pretty huge. Yeah, I think, yeah, you got anyone from, like, right at that cutoff of 25 years old…we even had some 24 year olds were like, yeah, I know I’m only 24–
Andi Rusk: –Yeah like, “Can I come?”–
Leo Duran: –But I still can’t relate to all these other people.
Andi Rusk: Yeah.
Leo Duran: Yeah. And I’ve seen, you know, people who probably are as old as my Grandpa I’d say who’s like in his 80’s–
Andi Rusk: Yeah, we’ve had some – people in their 60s and 70s have come to the OWLS group as well.
Ali Nazar: And I’m assuming it’s cross disciplinary from a major perspective.
Andi Rusk: Yeah, it’s all over the place.
Leo Duran: It’s also extremely multicultural, which I’m like, that is really cool. Because I think, like, even though Berkeley is pretty diverse, like, you still kind of see certain demographics a lot more than others. And OWLS – like, to see, like, all of us. It’s kind of, like, really nice.
Andi Rusk: Yeah, OWLS is truly like a melting pot: age, background – like, um, I don’t know, place they grew up in, like what they did before. Yeah, it’s like experience, I don’t know everything. It’s a very diverse group of people.
Ali Nazar: Cool. Well, I have a few questions about, like, what are some of the differences and challenges of being a older, wiser learner.
And you guys are listening to Berkeley Brainwaves on KALX Berkeley 90.7 FM.
First is from an academic perspective, like, what are the practical challenges of being an OWL in the undergrad population at Cal?
Leo Duran: Uh, I’ll say that for me, it was definitely like the kind of, like, learning curve of, like, being out of practice, like not, you know, going from high school to a four year university, or even from high school to a two year, and then to a four year, kind of like in those early years after high school. It’s like you go into – I went into the workforce, I went back to school because of COVID. And then I just kind of feel like I didn’t really know how to be a student anymore, I didn’t have those, like, time management skills or, like, I didn’t really know what was needed of me to, like, be able to succeed and, like, ace my classes. And I, and I was doing okay in community college, but you get to somewhere like Berkeley where it’s like you’re in a whole different ballgame and you’re– and and everyone else around you, they have that experience, they know what it takes. They’re on Discord, and they’re on this thing, and then they’re looking up this thing and they seem well versed on all of the resources, where like, as an older person you kind of have to navigate, you kind of have to figure it out, talk to people word of mouth, you know, and if you’re not so, like, into social media, like everything is on social media nowadays: “Oh follow us on Instagram, follow us on Instagram,” you’re not used to, like, opening your app every single day, like most of the kids around you, you’re kind of like, you know, you’re like at a little bit of a disadvantage. So, like for me, it was mostly just like, I don’t really feel like I have the skills that I need to be able to succeed at Berkeley as an older person. Like, I need a lot more resources, a lot more help. I need somebody who’s been like, yeah, I’ve been through that before. And like, this is how you’re going to do it. I mean, even just working with, like, kids on a group project, which has been like one of our most bonding, I feel like, conversations–
Andi Rusk: – It has been a point of bonding –
Leo Duran: Yeah. It’s like, I’ve had to work with all these kids and they always want me to be the leader ‘cause I’m the oldest one, but then they don’t do what I tell them to do. So it’s like, you know, like, am I the parent? Am I the teacher? Like, what is my role here? You know, it’s just like, I’m very happy to take the lead, but sometimes people don’t want to follow orders. So you’re like, well, what do you want me to do? You know, it’s just, it’s really interesting. So it’s kind of, it’s nice to know that, like, there’s people who’ve been through it, and people want to talk about it, and people who want to give you pointers and tips, and yeah– And even if you don’t get that, at least you get the comfort of knowing that someone else is suffering just as much as you are. That’s almost validating on its own.
Andi Rusk: Yeah, I think you make a really good point about how, like, that’s, for me, one of the biggest things is that, um, like you said, like, the students here who are traditionally aged, yeah, like, they’ve been preparing to come here the last four years of high school, they’re all kind of, like, academically oriented, they haven’t gone out and lived a life, this is, like, what they’re they’ve wanted to do or been told they’re going to do. Like, they just come here to do this thing.
Leo Duran: It’s what they know.
Andi Rusk: It’s what they know. And it’s what’s been expected of them. And they haven’t really imagined doing it any other way. Whereas if you come here, you know– I was 42 when I started here in the fall and like, I barely graduated high school, I didn’t go to college–obviously–when I was college aged, I like, slowly made my way back to this thing– and yeah, like you said, I didn’t know how to be a student. I had to, like, relearn all these things and, like, then relearn how to be a Berkeley student and then adjust from the workload of my community college to the workload of UC Berkeley and the, the pace and the expectations were different, and it isn’t the kind of environment like, yes, Berkeley is an amazing institution and you’re going to get a top notch education when you’re entering an undergrad class and you’re adjusting to your new workload, your academic expectations, and you’re also surrounded by people who are half your age, you don’t feel super comfortable, like, going to them and being like, I need help, I don’t know what I’m doing, like, what should I do? And so, yeah, having an actual separate place to go where other people are in the same boat, rough, you know, you can relate to them, you feel comfortable enough to be like, I don’t know what I’m doing, like, what should I do? Like, I didn’t even know how to go to office hours my first semester. And I was so stressed. And everyone else was like, “Oh, well, this is what you should do, and this is what you should ask. And this is how you should talk to them, and you should tell them your situation.” And, like, just these little things that I don’t think that I would have known to do or known to ask about, I was able to find that in OWLS and, like, get that kind of support. So, ‘cause there was, there’s always, like, people kind of, like, had already been at OWLS for, like, the year before me and then, like, incoming and outgoing people with all this knowledge of their own experience here.
Ali Nazar: I was going to ask, you were talking about office hours, like do the teachers and TAs have more empathy for OWLS type students? Like, or they don’t really care. Like, how do they perceive OWLS in their classes?
Andi Rusk: Well, in my experience, it was, it changed my whole, like, experience here. Like, um, they were– my first two, um, classes I had. When I did office hours and talked to both those professors and told them my age and like my whole stuff that I had going on– like, you know, I’m a grown up, I have two teenagers, like, this is my life. I work a full time job– like, they were so down. They were like, wow, that’s really amazing, and like, oh my gosh, like, that’s so great that you’re doing this, and you know If you ever need something, or if you need extra support. Like they were just– It did for me– I know maybe not everybody has had that experience, but at least with a couple professors that I opened up to about that, um, they were really kind to me. And I think that they– there was a sense of like, I think that for some professors, it’s nice when they have older students who are here so intentionally. Like, we’re here because we, like, really want to be here. Like, we went through all this trouble of going back to school and doing this thing and, like, working and grinding and, like, trying to get here, you know? We’re kind of, we’re not here to, like, party and, I don’t know, mess around, you know?
Ali Nazar: You’re not like an undecided kid.
Andi Rusk: We’re not undecided. We’re not undecided. We’re very intentional.
Ali Nazar: Yeah.
Andi Rusk: And I think that for a lot of professors, uh, I can’t speak to, for, all of them, but I think it does make a difference. I don’t know. Did you ever have any like–?
Leo Duran: I, I think that, for me, that my experience has been different because of my major. I think that in STEM, it is a lot more kind of clear cut and defining than it is in the humanities.
Andi Rusk: Yeah. That makes sense.
Leo Duran: And I say that not just because I’m a STEM major, but my minor is education and I’ve had that experience with, like, my professors in my education classes, right, but I don’t necessarily have that experience in my STEM class, like my math classes, it’s very much like, well, we can’t really, you know, give you anything else because, you know, we have to have these things out for– like, solutions have to be out at a certain time for other students to be able to study so we can’t really give you extensions, we can’t really do all these extra things for you because everyone is expected to do the exact same amount of work as you. So it doesn’t really necessarily translate that well into, like, my STEM major, but it does definitely, like, I’ve had that experience in my education– the way they can see that I’m so, like, intentional about what I want to do and I’m so passionate, and they are willing to kind of like work with me and say, like, I’ll give you this extension, I, you know, I see you putting in the work I see that, you know, and it’s, and it’s different. But, um, yeah, I do say that they’re–in my, in STEM, it’s not that they don’t want to reciprocate that, it’s just that they, I feel like it’s a lot harder to like, for them to do, right?
Andi Rusk: Yeah, they’re such competitive majors, too.
Leo Duran: Yeah, and it’s, and it’s not like–
Andi Rusk: –Oh, like, your classes are like, how many, how many people do you have in the class?
Leo Duran: Like 300, you know, and it’s, it’s not like you’re all writing a different paper, you’re all doing the exact same problem set, so you can’t, you know, it’s like, getting an extension on a homework assignment– it’s not the same as like getting an extension on a paper.
Andi Rusk: It’s really a different thing.
Ali Nazar: They might have empathy, but there’s not much they can do about it.
Leo Duran: Right, exactly. But you feel the empathy, which is, like, comforting.
Ali Nazar: Yeah.
Andi Rusk: That does make a difference at least.
Ali Nazar: Okay, cool. We’re talking to Leo Durand and Andi Rusk. They are members of the Older, Wiser Learners group here at UC Berkeley, and you’re listening to Berkeley Brainwaves on KALX, Berkeley 90.7 FM, University of California and listener supported radio. I’m your host, Ali Nazar. We talked about the academic changes or differences for an OWLS student. What about the social side? Like, I would think that’s like a completely different boat.
Andi Rusk: It’s bananas.
Ali Nazar: Why don’t we start with you, Leo?
Andi Rusk: [laughing] Yeah, why don’t you start.
Ali Nazar: What is some of the differences for an OWLS student from a social perspective at Cal?
Leo Duran: Yeah, I, okay. Some of my favorite thing about OWLS is, like– has actually been hearing the horror stories about, like, the social perspective of older students. You know, I’m lucky enough that I’ve lived off campus, like, I found off campus housing as soon as I got here. And I didn’t have to, like, move into the dorms or anything like that. But I’ve… I’ve heard, just like, horror stories about, you know, older students who come in and live in the dorms and they’re, like, essentially parenting. Their like dormmates–
Andi Rusk: Yeah, like 18 year old dormmates–
Leo Duran: –and they’re, like, up to like 4 in the morning, they’re playing video games, they’re going to parties, they’re coming, like, in drunk late at night, you know, it’s just like I go to bed by 10 p. m. You know– yes, it’s been, like, really interesting to hear, like, just how different, like, it is, like, to to be, oh, I’m here socially, I want to party, I want to, you know, do all this, than to be here, like, my social, like, well, my social battery is now it’s like, hey, let’s go out to like a nice dinner, and like, let’s talk about this, you know, like, let’s go out to coffee. And it’s very, like, different, like–
Andi Rusk: Sure.
Leo Duran: And also just like finding people that you vibe with as an older person is–
Andi Rusk: Hard
Leo Duran: It’s hard.
Andi Rusk: It’s harder.
Leo Duran: It’s like the Older, Wiser Learner community here is already so small, and then within that community, you have to try to find people who you mesh with, right, who you’re going to get along with outside of these meetings, outside of these spaces. So it’s, it’s even, and, and you’re also like, you know, like, some of them might be parents, some of them might, like, be full time employees, like, some of them might be, you know, all of the above. So it’s just like having that time and, like, finding all of those, like, puzzle pieces that fit together and saying, like, this is, like, somebody that I can, like, do social things with, like, I haven’t really even – like a year now – I’m in a year and I still feel like I’m still trying to build that sort of social community–
Andi Rusk: –That community–
Leo Duran: –Like to be able to do those things with, because it’s been so hard, right?
Andi Rusk: Right.
Leo Duran: Like, I feel like I don’t even relate to people within my major, so, like, I kind of have to step out of that and like, yeah, it’s, it’s, it’s so complicated.
Andi Rusk: That’s what the OWLS really is for, right? Because for a lot of us, like you just said, The OWLS meetings, honestly, for me, that is my only social community at Cal, I literally don’t have time. Like, I, you know, like I mentioned, I’m, I’m a parent, I work a full time job. I, I’m not, it’s not easy for me outside of the OWLs to, like, make extra, even more extra time to be like, yeah, let’s go out and hang out and do something fun, and, um, and even that reminds me of like, when I did the Golden Bear orientation right before my first semester, I was with, you know, you’re with the same group of new students all day, and that was like the first experience with the social dynamic being weird because they were, like, my little cohort had to be together all day and they’re like, “…and then tonight we’re all gonna go out and get drinks and go do karaoke after we’ve been at orientation all day. Do you want to come?” And I was like, “No,” [group laughs] “I couldn’t even if I wanted to–”
Ali Nazar: To go cook dinner.
Andi Rusk: Yeah, I gotta go cook dinner and, like, do laundry. So you’re it’s very, like, from day one, kind of glaringly different. Um, yeah, like, or even like, like Leo, you know, we’re on the radio, so they don’t know, but you look young. So like, it’s also, it also can make you feel kind of awkward too, like, I don’t look that young and so it can also be alienating when you’re, like, maybe you do want more socializing with people you’re in class with, but they’re also just like, well, she looks like somebody’s mom, like, I’m not gonna ask her to come to our study group–
Ali Nazar: Yeah.
Andi Rusk: Or, like, there’s, like, a lot, there can be a lot of sort of self-consciousness that plays into that, you know, or I don’t know, it’s a lot of things, there’s a lot, there’s a lot to unpack. [laughing]
Ali Nazar: Well, we’re on the radio to unpack this topic.
Andi Rusk: Yeah. And that’s, but that’s, like, also what I think OWLS is for is, like, because those first experiences where you are adjusting to new social dynamics, new academic dynamics, you’re feeling self-conscious, you’re feeling like maybe you’re in above your head also, like the first semester I was here, I was like, I don’t think I can do this. Like, this is too hard–
Leo Duran: Oh yeah.
Andi Rusk: The work load’s too big–
Leo Duran: Many times.
Andi Rusk: I can’t– yeah. Many, many times. Pretty much the entire first semester, I was like, I can’t do this. And I would go to OWLS, and I would be in a room of ten people, all saying the same thing.
Leo Duran: Mmm hmm.
Andi Rusk: And we were all like, it’s really hard, and we’re all here. And we would all be, honestly, like, the most kind to each other, the most support– like, no, you’re here for a reason, you got into this school, like, you can do this. It was like, it was extremely important. I don’t know that I would have made it all the way through this first semester if I didn’t go and have every week people being like, you can do this, it’s okay.
Leo Duran: Mmm hmm.
Andi Rusk: Like you’re good enough to be here. You’re not too old.
Leo Duran: [laughing] Agreed.
Andi Rusk: Like, literally, like, you’re not too old. Cause I really did feel like I’m just too old, I just can’t do it, you know? Um, but it wasn’t true and it is, yeah, like, I didn’t even expect the OWLS to be as meaningful as it has been for me. Um, like, it’s just been, like, such an integral part of my entire experience as a student here, yeah.
Ali Nazar: Leo, you feel the same way?
Leo Duran: Oh yeah, a hundred percent, yeah. And it is– I, I like that you brought up that I looked young. [laughing]
Ali Nazar: [laughing] Of course you do.
Leo Duran: Not because I want to say that I look young, but it brings up, like, a good point. I think that my experience is different from some of the OWLS who come to the meetings who, like, do look like, you know–
Andi Rusk: Mmm hmm. More stand out a little bit more–
Leo Duran: More stand out a little bit more because of their age. I do feel like I have this blend-in factor where, like, you know, I’ve told students my age and they’re like, “Oh, I would have never guessed,” like I, “you don’t look older than 25.”
Andi Rusk: Mmm hmm.
Leo Duran: So then they, I don’t have so much of a challenge of, like, trying to connect with students or talk to students. Well, I would say connect– there is a challenge there, because, like, even though, like, people do approach me and people do want to, like, talk to me or, like, join my group or whatever in class that, uh, it’s, it’s uh– when they start talking about certain things, like, it’s like, you know, like people in that age group–
Andi Rusk: Like Gen Z stuff? [laughing]
Leo Duran: They all listen to the same music, you know?
Ali Nazar: Yeah.
Andi Rusk: Yeah.
Leo Duran: They all know, like, the same slang words. And, and I, it’s so weird to be at an age group where you’re like, oh, I get it now, I get why people used to say that about me when I was younger, like, oh, like, “What the kids are listening to, what the kids are doing…” [Andi Rusk and Ali Nazar laugh] It’s like, it’s weird. I feel like the early thirties are that age where you start to feel that difference, and it’s like they’re saying things that I don’t understand, you know, they’re speaking in a language that I don’t understand, they’re going to concerts of artists that I’ve never heard of who are like selling out these huge auditoriums, but I’ve never heard of them. And it’s just because, oh, I’m kind of at that age where like, it’s, it’s a different generation. It’s a different group of people. So like, yeah, I, I may like look younger, but I still feel like–
Andi Rusk: There’s a disconnect.
Leo Duran: Yeah, there’s a disconnect, and it’s almost like, I’m almost, like, expected to, like, know what these things are because I’m not that much older than they are, you know?
Andi Rusk: Exactly. Yeah. Whereas me, they know I’m old. But – [Leo Duran and Ali Nazar laugh] it’s fine. But also I will say for me too, I’ve also been lucky since I work on campus and I work with student– like traditional students in a different capacity, that actually does help me because I do know all the words I do know all the slang, I do know all the music and I have teenagers, so that actually keeps me, like, not like I don’t feel like I’m some kind of like Fuddy Duddy or something, you know, I just look old, but on the inside, I know all the young people stuff. [laughing]
Leo Duran: Maybe I should come babysit your teenagers.
Andi Rusk: Yeah, you can get all that info from them if you want.
Ali Nazar: Yeah, does it make you, like, cooler, a cooler mom? Cause you have all the slang with your teenagers?
Andi Rusk: It honestly does. My son is often honestly impressed at how much I understand his jokes. He sends me memes all the time, and like, he’s like, I think he is kind of impressed like, “Oh, she gets it, like, she thinks that’s funny. Oh, she’s, she’s chronically online just like me.” [laughter]
Ali Nazar: All right. Well, uh, I guess we’re getting closer to the end of the interview here. I want to ask you guys a couple of more questions. One is around [clears throat] OWLS as a support network for older, wiser learners.
Andi Rusk: Mmm hmm.
Ali Nazar: So if there was a new Older Wiser Learner coming in in fall semester, besides joining OWLS, what would you say would be your top piece of advice to them to– it sounds like the first semester is really hard, that’s like a huge adjustment period.
Andi Rusk: Yeah, that’s a big transition.
Ali Nazar: So what would be like– Andi, we’ll start with you. What would be your, your number one top point of advice?
Andi Rusk: Aside from going to OWLS you mean?
Ali Nazar: Besides that, yeah.
Andi Rusk: Besides that? I would say.. [sighs] oy, there’s a couple of things. One, just be as, this is so cheesy, but be as kind to yourself as possible. Like, really try to, like, not put instant pressure, like, “I’m at Berkeley, and I have to, like, do everything perfectly, and I have to get straight A’s, and I have to–” Like, I would say, don’t do that at all. Like, really just try to be like, “I’m here, I got into this school for a reason. If I don’t do everything perfectly, if the workload is overwhelming at first, it’s okay. I can ask for help.” Like, I would say just trying to, like…just not instantly freak out about being here, [laughing] which is, like, really easier said than done. Um, also I would say just as a student at Berkeley, for any student, is, like, you need to get yourself a routine. You need to get yourself a good routine. You need to have good self-care. You need to, like, sleep enough, eat enough, have a plan. Be like– those kinds of things when you’re here taking classes and, like, getting used to all this craziness– um, it’s really gonna only help you if you set yourself up to, like, have good habits, like, both study and personal habits I think. Sounds so nerdy saying that out loud, but it’s true. [laughing]
Leo Duran: I don’t think it sounds nerdy at all.
Andi Rusk: What do you think?
Leo Duran: I, I would say it’s be, be vulnerable and be honest about your experience. I think for me, that’s been the, the thing that’s connected me with other people the most–
Andi Rusk: Uh huh, yeah.
Leo Duran: –is just being like, dude, I can’t do this. Like, I, I’m not, I’m not cut out for this. Like, or, or– I hate kids. I hate every single child in my class. [Andi Rusk and Ali Nazar laugh] Or maybe you love them. You may be like, “Oh my God, I like these kids,” whatever, like your truth is, like whatever, like whatever you’re living–
Andi Rusk: Such a good point.
Leo Duran: Like, the most vulnerable and honest you are about your experience, like, that’s what’s going to bring you to, like, that advice or those connections or that help that you, like, might not even feel like you might be seeking, but you end up kind of just getting led to–
Andi Rusk: So true.
Leo Duran: –And be like, okay, like, this is, this is now where I get to decide like, you know, do I show up for myself and, like, you know, follow the advice or, like, use the resource that’s being offered to me or, or do I run away from it? And it’s just like, you know, you have to, like, make that decision then and there, but, but if you’re honest and vulnerable and, like, you share with, like, your, your truth and the experience that you’re living, I think that’s, like, the way that you’re going to find those connections and those resources that I could think help you succeed and completely change your life at Berkeley. For me, it’s been like day and night, like, coming in here to, like, where I was a year ago to where I am now – day and night. And it’s because I’ve been honest. I’m like, hey, this is what– you know, like this is what I’m living, and this is what I need.
Andi Rusk: Yeah.
Leo Duran: And you know, I don’t think I can do this. And it’s like you said, like the, the awesome thing about OWLS is that everyone’s been through it and everyone’s just so freaking nice there and they tell you that you can do it. And they’re going to tell you, you can do it until you believe it in yourself.
Andi Rusk: Yeah.
Leo Duran: You know, and then you might forget.
Andi Rusk: Yeah. No one’s going to tell you anything else.
Leo Duran: You might forget that you, you believed it once. You might be like, “Oh no, I’m here again.”
Andi Rusk: It’s true.
Leo Duran: But you know, it’s just kind of like a cycle that you might have to keep going through, but it’s nice to just, like, be on the other side of that.
Andi Rusk: Yeah.
Leo Duran: Like every time you go through it, on the other side, it feels really good to be on the other side.
Andi Rusk: Yeah, that’s like all his mantra is is, like, just don’t go it alone. Just, like, ask for help.
Leo Duran: Mmm hmm.
Ali Nazar: Yeah.
Andi Rusk: It’s ask for help. It’s there. There’s lots of people around here that will help you. They’ll tell you, whether it’s something very basic on campus or some bigger issue that you’re, you can’t figure out.
Leo Duran: Mmm hmm. Big time.
Andi Rusk: Someone will have some advice for you. You don’t need to pretend you’re okay. [laughs]
Ali Nazar: It sounds like that’s the main function of OWLS.
Andi Rusk: That is the main function of OWLS.
Ali Nazar: So that’s an amazing way to maybe wrap it up. I do have one last question. Do OWLS have a better experience at Cal? [Andi Rusk laughs] Having this like, this, like, perspective you guys are talking about, the intentionality you’re talking about.
Andi Rusk: I mean, I guess– I’m going to say yes. I mean, I, I guess I couldn’t know. [Leo Duran and Ali Nazar laugh] I haven’t had any other experience.
Leo Duran: Yeah, I went to community college right after high school, and I would say absolutely. Like, I mean, it’s, I, I can’t compare my community college to like what Berkeley is, but yeah, I feel like being an older student and having that intentionality and that direction and, like, the sense of, like, I know what I’m doing and what I want to get out of this–
Andi Rusk: Yeah.
Leo Duran: –is extremely, like, just,like, so rewarding, it’s like the, like, I, I’m so glad that I took this long to figure out, and to, like–
Andi Rusk: –Come to doing this, like, when you really wanted to–
Leo Duran: –Yeah, when I really wanted to,
Andi Rusk: Same.
Leo Duran: Because, like, I just, I didn’t have that before. And it just feels really good to be like, okay, I’m putting myself through hell, but like, you know what, when I’m on the other side, and I’m out of these doors, and I’m helping kids, and you know, I’m a teacher, and I’m, like, you know, like, impacting community, like, I am so ready for that. Like, I’m just like, I have that fire, I have that drive. And I don’t think I would have had that if I came here, you know, like, right after community college, when I went after high school, like, I’m kind of glad that I dropped out and had the story that I did.
Andi Rusk: Yeah. I think I’m definitely having a more rewarding experience than I would have at a younger age, and my husband went to UCSB and he’s actually told me many times, like, he thinks what I’m doing is probably way more fulfilling. And he’s like, it’s such a different experience to go and do this thing and be so motivated [Leo Duran laughs] and be so invested in it and not be partying and not be like, you know, distracted, um, at least by that kind of stuff. I’m distracted by, like, domestic responsibilities. [Ali Nazar and Leo Duran laugh] But, um, yeah, I mean, I think it’s a very different and, um, for me, very fulfilling experience to be here at this age, like with all the challenges, it’s still really special.
Ali Nazar: Cool. Well, congrats to both of you.
Andi Rusk: Thank you.
Ali Nazar: Thanks for coming on the radio. You guys have been listening to Berkeley Brainwaves on KALX, Berkeley 90.7 FM. This was Andi Rusk and Leo Duran from the OWLS group. How do people get in touch with the OWLS group if they want?
Andi Rusk: Um, you can really just Google–
Leo Duran: Instagram–
Andi Rusk: Yeah, well, Instagram, the re-entry services has an Instagram. You can also just, like, look up the re-entry services for UC Berkeley and OWLS has a link somewhere, but it’s pretty easy to find. I don’t know the link off hand, sorry. [laughing]
Ali Nazar: We’ll, we’ll post something online. You can look on the KALX website at kalx.berkeley.edu. And thanks for listening, everybody.
Did you know that